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Oct 4 13 1:18 AM

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I have a suggestion for a goal that I'm well aware sub fans won't want but dub fans possibly would. How about a new English dub for BGC?

IMO that old dub is a relic of the past. I made it to episode 3 before giving up on it. It's pretty awful. I think a new modern dub for BGC from a studio like NYAV Post or Coastal Studios (I think they're still around) would be really cool to see happen.

Obviously the new dub goal would be for after all the other goals in the campaign are passed. What does everyone else think?
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#2 [url]

Oct 4 13 3:25 AM

Hey, if there is a consensus that supporters want it, and there is enough money in the budget to cover it, then I am fine with it.

However, it would almost certainly mean the release of the UOE would be pushed into late 2014.

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#3 [url]

Oct 4 13 11:54 AM

 Hey, if there is a consensus that supporters want it, and there is enough money in the budget to cover it, then I am fine with it.

However, it would almost certainly mean the release of the UOE would be pushed into late 2014.

I backed Mighty No. 9, which won't be ready until 2015, obviously I'm only speaking for myself, but I'm prepared to wait for awesome things.

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#4 [url]

Oct 4 13 5:35 PM

I joined this forum just to say I am all for an all new dub of Bubblegum Crisis. The old one was absolutely horrible, both in terms of acting and when the songs were dubbed (though truthfully, the English version of "Say Yes" is better than the Japanese one) so a new dub definitely would be welcome

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#5 [url]

Oct 4 13 10:06 PM

I also joined just to say that I would love a new English dub. I'm pretty loyal with English dubs, but Bubblegum Crisis just might be the Resident Evil of anime when it comes to bad voice acting. I would love to see what could be done with it again (AnimEigo did also do some great dubs, like Oh My Goddess, and You're Under Arrest). And the franchise is pretty short, so I imagine it wouldn't be as expensive as most anime (just a guess, I'm not in the business) and it supports the industry. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes since it alone would be worth the upgrade. Thanks!

Last Edited By: GOliver Oct 4 13 10:13 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

Oct 14 13 1:27 AM

I also favor a new dub. Besides the obvious potential for increase in acting quality, it would also provide the perfect opportunity to fully record all of the songs in English. I'd so love an English soundtrack to this series, and maybe this Kickstarter will finally make that happen.

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#9 [url]

Oct 27 13 11:03 PM

There are people who prefer dub only so giving those costumers a well done english version would make it easier to get people into BGC that haven't seen it yet. There are also groups online that focus on/like dubbed anime.

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#10 [url]

Oct 27 13 11:28 PM

Oooo, and we could have a dual language release ala-Akira.

I not only support this option, if it is implemented I make a motion that a new donation reward be added for an appropriately high amount (random suggestion $1000): casting in minor role for new dub.

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#11 [url]

Oct 28 13 12:31 AM

GOAI not only support this option, if it is implemented I make a motion that a new donation reward be added for an appropriately high amount (random suggestion $1000): casting in minor role for new dub.

Oh no no no. Casting non-voice actors didn't work out so well in the original dub. ;)

-Paul Acevedo
 Games Editor, Mobile Nations

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#12 [url]

Oct 28 13 1:13 AM

I did say Minor Role. :p The suggestion keeps in mind the original wasn't so hot (can't be worse). I think it would make a nice fan-sponsored touch. A fan dedicated enough to swing that is likely to treat any material with a bit more consideration. Plus if it puts a significant chunk of change into the budget, why not?

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#13 [url]

Oct 28 13 1:08 PM

As a backer, and an "original language" prefer..er, I would support a new dub if it doesn't take significantly away from another really cool option. See, I can be reasonable.

If the vote came down to spoken English or say, the drama cassettes getting a proper English subtitle release, I'd go for the cassette transfer, since this is something we've NEVER seen and will NEVER likely have the possibility to receive once the Kickstarter edition releases.

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#14 [url]

Oct 28 13 3:52 PM

slerch666As a backer, and an "original language" prefer..er, I would support a new dub if it doesn't take significantly away from another really cool option. See, I can be reasonable.

If the vote came down to spoken English or say, the drama cassettes getting a proper English subtitle release, I'd go for the cassette transfer, since this is something we've NEVER seen and will NEVER likely have the possibility to receive once the Kickstarter edition releases.

I won't argue that the audio dramas would be cool. But from a business perspective, having a proper dub at least doubles the potential audience for the set. No individual special feature would have the same selling power. So really dubbing should be the first priority.

-Paul Acevedo
 Games Editor, Mobile Nations

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#15 [url]

Oct 28 13 4:58 PM

I've got to strongly disagree with you, eastx, for multiple reasons. One, a dub doesn't always double marketability, and even if it did, that still doesn't necessarily make it a cost effective use of resources (i.e. if dubbing doubles sales from 1500 units to 3000 units, that isn't enough to even come close to breaking even on dub costs). Two, that perspective assumes that there isn't already a dub, as is the case here. I'd wager that most people are at least okay with the existing dub (or don't care about dubs at all) considering how well the fundraiser is doing. Some people might even prefer it for nostalgia reasons. So you're not doubling the appeal, but instead appealing to a specific niche of dub fans, most of which would probably pledge anyway, regardless of whether a new dub was made or not.

Most importantly, though, this Kickstarter is for everyone, not just a niche of dub fans who would like a newer dub. Additional content (such as, say, the AD Police Files or Scramble Wars) benefits everyone; that should clearly be the priority for funds. I have no issue with producing a new dub in of itself, but it should come last, after any possible content that could be added has been.

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#16 [url]

Oct 28 13 9:48 PM

I agree with Glorian. Having more content like AD Police Files included comes first IMO. A new dub is an extra albeit a major one. My suggestion for a new dub was for if the Kickstarter does so well that it could be feasible after other content like AD Police is added.

The backers are going to vote on what will be done with the extra production funds anyways. That would be the deciding factor even if there are enough funds for it.

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#17 [url]

Oct 28 13 9:57 PM

GlorianI've got to strongly disagree with you, eastx, for multiple reasons. One, a dub doesn't always double marketability, and even if it did, that still doesn't necessarily make it a cost effective use of resources (i.e. if dubbing doubles sales from 1500 units to 3000 units, that isn't enough to even come close to breaking even on dub costs). Two, that perspective assumes that there isn't already a dub, as is the case here. I'd wager that most people are at least okay with the existing dub (or don't care about dubs at all) considering how well the fundraiser is doing. Some people might even prefer it for nostalgia reasons. So you're not doubling the appeal, but instead appealing to a specific niche of dub fans, most of which would probably pledge anyway, regardless of whether a new dub was made or not.

Most importantly, though, this Kickstarter is for everyone, not just a niche of dub fans who would like a newer dub. Additional content (such as, say, the AD Police Files or Scramble Wars) benefits everyone; that should clearly be the priority for funds. I have no issue with producing a new dub in of itself, but it should come last, after any possible content that could be added has been.

I'll have to disagree with your use of the word niche. Dubs fans are niche like Democrats are niche. Maybe we should use the word group or camp instead. In fact, dub fans are the mainstream as far as non-hardcore anime viewers go. There are mainstream audiences that won't watch anything subtitled, period. Of course, the same applies to subtitle fans but there's no way they outnumber dub fans among general audiences.

Nobody could be happy with the original dub as compared to professionally acted and recorded dubs, or in other words, the dubs of today. Appreciation of sound or voice acting is subjective, but there is such a thing as consensus. Of course, the existence of the dub did open Bubblegum Crisis up to new audiences, so you'll have people who like it insofar as it allows them to enjoy the series at all. Those same people could enjoy the series more if a less substandard dub was produced.

Obviously the Kickstarter did not need a new dub in order to be successful, though I maintain that promising it as a stretch goal (or any real stretch goals) would have helped the campaign do even better. IMO licensing additional shows/OVAs other than the already promised AD Police is beyond the spirit of the Kickstarter itself - making the best possible edition of Bubblegum Crisis. I'd love to have all that content, but Scramble Wars could sustain its own Kickstarter or just be released traditionally at a later date. You can't really redub Bubblegum Crisis at a later date - the market as shrunk too much to do that. And I was always talking about future retail sales potential for the set, not just selling to the people who will contribute to the Kickstarter.

-Paul Acevedo
 Games Editor, Mobile Nations

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#18 [url]

Oct 28 13 11:54 PM

Uh...go back and read my post again. I never said that dub fans were niche, I said that dub fans who would prefer a re-dub, even over new material and content, were a niche. All the stuff you said in your first paragraph is irrelevant to what I said, and doesn't matter anyway; what the 'mainstream' does is irrelevant, as Bubblegum Crisis (as much as I like it) is NOT mainstream. It's an older title in a niche market, and if 'mainstream' were even vaguely relevant, then Animeigo wouldn't need a Kickstarter at all; does Funimation run a Kickstarter to decide whether to release Dragon Ball Z?

As for paragraph 2, I am perfectly willing to believe that at least some people might enjoy a new dub more, but that's not the point. I'd enjoy the set more if it was solid gold and encrusted with diamonds; that doesn't mean that it would be cost efficient. The point being discussed was the best return out of limited resources; I have no inherent objection to a new dub, but new content is useful to more people.

As for paragraph 3, that's really just something that we're going to agree to disagree on; I really think that you're seriously overestimating the demand for a new dub, especially since anime companies in general rarely re-dub license rescues or re-releases. It clearly doesn't produce a worthwhile return most of the time. It's a nice thought, but it doesn't really make sense from a business standpoint (the position you were trying to argue from). You could argue from a non-business perspective (putting out the best possible release for the fans), but from a fan perspective, my original argument stands; material for everyone is better than material for some.

And I have to say that I feel you're completely wrong about the Kickstarter and its goals: it's the ULTIMATE edition, after all. Ideally, everything even vaguely associated with Bubblegum Crisis should be included (associated OVAs, spin-offs, written material, images, etc) in order to make it THE definitive Bubblegum Crisis release. Otherwise, why mention other shows like AD Police Files and Bubblegum Crash at all, since (as you mentioned) they could be released individually at a later date? They were mentioned because including that type of extra material is exactly the style of release aimed for from the start. Actually including everything isn't practical, of course, but the Ultimate edition should include whatever it possibly can.

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#19 [url]

Oct 29 13 12:50 AM

GlorianI really think that you're seriously overestimating the demand for a new dub, especially since anime companies in general rarely re-dub license rescues or re-releases. It clearly doesn't produce a worthwhile return most of the time. It's a nice thought, but it doesn't really make sense from a business standpoint (the position you were trying to argue from). You could argue from a non-business perspective (putting out the best possible release for the fans), but from a fan perspective, my original argument stands; material for everyone is better than material for some.

And I have to say that I feel you're completely wrong about the Kickstarter and its goals: it's the ULTIMATE edition, after all. Ideally, everything even vaguely associated with Bubblegum Crisis should be included (associated OVAs, spin-offs, written material, images, etc) in order to make it THE definitive Bubblegum Crisis release. Otherwise, why mention other shows like AD Police Files and Bubblegum Crash at all, since (as you mentioned) they could be released individually at a later date? They were mentioned because including that type of extra material is exactly the style of release aimed for from the start. Actually including everything isn't practical, of course, but the Ultimate edition should include whatever it possibly can.

You seem to approach Bubblegum Crisis with the mindset that only people who have already enjoyed it in some previous form would be interested in it. Of course those people would be the vast majority of Kickstarter contributors, but there's no reason to assume that people born in the 90s couldn't dig it too. Hell, people born this year could end up enjoying it 15 years down the line. One of the ways you could increase the series' chances of reaching new fans is by removing obstacles to enjoying it such as a bad dub (or rather, adding a proper dub in addition to the disliked one). In no way is the absence of Scramble Wars an obstacle to enjoying Bubblegum Crisis.

You're right that series are rarely dubbed in English more than once, and that it costs money to record a new dub. But one part of why they're hardly ever dubbed again is that the existing dub is usually fine and meets the basic standards for English anime dubs. Nobody records a new dub just for the hell of it. Bubblegum Crisis however had a really, really bad dub. Don't take my word for it; here's a few review excerpts. These were a bitch to paste due to the Yuku forum's general horribeless.

OtakuUSA Magazine:
"The Bubblegum Crisis dub is NOTORIOUSLY sub-par; the type of thing frequently pointed to back in the old “dubs vs subs” arguments that used to be REALLY heated back in the days when you were forced to buy one or the other. Thanks to that dub, I picked up on the fact that the ability to convincingly voice the act of crying often separates bad dubs from the not-so-bad… and the Bubblegum Crisis dub has some of the WORST crying ever!... Unless you saw the dub back when you were a kid and have some bizarre nostalgia for it, you REALLY don’t want to hear Bubblegum Crisis for the first time in English."


Them Anime:
"One warning, though: the dubbed version of Crisis is not quite up to par. Voices are usually quite mismatched, and the voice acting falls flat precisely in the scenes where convincing acting is most important for credibility."


DVD Vision Japan:
"In a word, horrible. Flat delivery, voice mismatches (Dr Stingray is in his 30's, not just out of high school), cases of overacting, and way over emoted singing make this one of the worse dubs out there."


Otaku Revolution:
"A dub was produced for this title way back in 1994 by Southwynde Studio, who dubbed very few programs. In fact, other than Crisis and Crash, they only dubbed Riding Bean and Battle Royal High School. From what I can gather, none of these dubs were any good... It truly is a relic in need of updating. It's not as though the script was that poor. The writing was fairly decent for the dub. The problem lied in the uninspired casting and wooden acting. It caused everything in the dub to come across as very dry and unnatural."


Simple Anime Reviews:
"The last negative is really what damages Bubblegum Crisis’s chances for being a true masterpiece, and that’s the dubbing. I must say that the dub in this is one of the worst I’ve ever heard. It’s nowhere near as bad as let’s say, Mad Bull 34, but a lot of it just doesn’t seem to have any punch to it."

 
I guess those are niche opinions, huh? Ahem. Anyway, this set does present a chance to correct that major consistent criticism of the series. In fairness to the dub, some of us actually like the English versions of the series' songs. The English soundtrack would be a fantastic bonus. But because they inexplicably recorded only the parts of the songs used on-screen, the only way it can be included is if a new dub is produced.

And this series can be a definitive release without including a bunch of extra series that are by definition not the same series, not that I'm opposed to extra shows being included. I'm sure AD Police and Crash are mentioned in the Kickstarter because AnimEigo has previously released those series and people would ask about them. It looks like we're likely to get AD Police and Crash isn't in the cards for this set, so there's not much point in debating their inclusion, really.

-Paul Acevedo
 Games Editor, Mobile Nations

Last Edited By: eastx Oct 29 13 3:41 AM. Edited 3 times.

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#20 [url]

Oct 29 13 1:28 AM

eastxIMO licensing additional shows/OVAs other than the already promised AD Police is beyond the spirit of the Kickstarter itself - making the best possible edition of Bubblegum Crisis. I'd love to have all that content, but Scramble Wars could sustain its own Kickstarter or just be released traditionally at a later date.

Just to give a practical example... when the Time of Even Kickstarter reached its goal many times over, by popular demand they added Aquatic Language and Pale Cocoon shorts as extras.

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