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Nov 20 13 11:11 AM

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"Premium supporters get everything Basic supporters get. Half of the pledge goes right into the production budget, but up to 50% of that portion will be assigned to a special Premium production budget that only Premium supporters will decide how to allocate, either for special commemorative items made just for them, or to enhance the final product for everyone. The exact amount that gets allocated will depend on how much of the pledge is needed to fund a fair share of the basic production budget -- if we exceed about 1550 supporters, then 25% of your pledge goes into the basic budget, and 25% into the premium budget."

There's been a lot of pie-in-the-sky type talk about what people would like, but as it comes down to the wire it might be time to get a bit more realistic. The premium tier doesn't have a fixed budget but you can start to estimate based on the current Kickstarter level and the above statement taken from KS page. Outside of the warm fuzzies from contributing more and items tied to to the higher tiers what if anything is someone that pledges at these levels likely to actually get out of this "premium" budget?

What is there that would coax someone to jump from a lower tier to the $100 or more level? Something like the coin, small merch would seem to be the most likely, and while that probably should have been tied to the higher tiers, it's not and probably can't/won't change. High-end figures and full cd sets seem unlikely, so what's left? 

P.S. This was prompted by a post on the kickstarter comments page.

Last Edited By: JesseP Nov 20 13 11:23 AM. Edited 1 time

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#1 [url]

Nov 20 13 12:39 PM

Jesse - not sure. Based on the excess production budget Robert mentioned, and assuming that premium budget is at least $22.50 per premium backer as advertised (25% of the 90% of $100 left after assuming 10% for kickstarter, amazon and backerkit fees), the vast majority of the current excess funds would be in the premium budget.

We're at about $125K now, so by Robert's update 9 figure that leaves $12K excess budget. Of that at least around $8500 (~377 current premium/patron backers x $22.50) would be in the premium budget and only at most $3500 in the regular budget, possibly a lot less depending on the allocation of costs for Patron items.

So if Premium backers are selfish and keep their full $22.50+ to themselves that is probably enough to add a pretty fun exclusive or few... but at the cost of leaving next to nothing to improve the set for everyone (no 3rd disc?)

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#2 [url]

Nov 20 13 4:33 PM

The premium budget isn't as high as you think, Kith -- remember, Premium folks still have to contribute their fair share to the Basic budget. I made a post somewhere explaining how the calculations work (or at least, how I *think* they'll work), but you should roughly figure on 25% of the additional funds (over the cost of Basic) going into the Premium budget.

I am already in the process of getting tighter quotes for budget items, now that I have a better idea about quantities. Hopefully there will be fairly tight budget numbers to discuss in a couple of weeks.

Costs for Patron items (mostly shipping, since most were donated) will come off the top, since they are promotional items.

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#3 [url]

Nov 20 13 10:56 PM


I was hypothetically using the formula you outlined in which would result in more or less what I said.

Just for simplicity's sake, I'll assume 10% for kickstarter/amazon/paypal/backerkit fees, ignore the handful of pledges at lower tiers than the full set, ignore international shipping cost, ignore people pledging more than necessary for their tiers, ignore double vision, and treat the poster shipping cost as eating up the full $25 gross difference in pledge amounts (a lot of assumptions, I know, so reality may differ by a bit) and run through that formula:

BASIC NET: [(250 x $40 early adopter basic)+(1004 x $50 basic)+(65 x $50 basic poster)] * 0.9 = $57105
BASIC Budget Contribution: $28552.50
Per-Copy BASIC Budget Allotment: [$28552.50/ (250 + 1004 + 65)] = $21.65

For premium I'll assume one copy per backer, assume the cost of shipping for the premium items will eat up $25 gross of the pledge (this may be high for some and low for others, but consistent with the assumption I made on the poster earlier. for pledges above $1000 I'll arbitrarily assume the cost of providing the extra goods/services eats up 50% of the gross pledge amount)
PREMIUM NET: [(50 x $90 early adopter premium)+(215 x $100 premium)+(65 x $100 premium poster)+(2 x $125 patron pillowcase/figures)+(17 x $150 patron poster/garage kit)+(16 x $175 patron largo/lisa/mason/boomer+ad police)+(1 x $200 patron revenge road)+(6 x $225 patron vinyl/motoslaves/leon)+(1 x $375 patron daley)+(1 x $475 patron hurricane)+(1 x $500 superboomer [5 copies])+(2 x $650 music video maestro [10 total copies])+(4 x $1016 patron sonoda sketch)] * 0.9 = $41727.60

(note, this plus the calculated BASIC NET only leaves us a total calculated pledged amount of $109814, so my assumptions are writing off nearly $20K in pledges from double vision add-ons, international shipping charges, and the cost of shipping posters/figures/cels/showing people around Wilmington/supervising their video editing/obtaining the Sonoda sketches)

Premium Contribution to BASIC Budget ($21.65 x 393 copies): $8508.45

Total BASIC Production budget: $28552.50 + $8508.45 = $37060.95. This minus production/manufacturing/shipping expenses for 1712 copies of the most basic vision of the set  is the budget BASIC backers have to allocate.
SPECIAL PREMIUM BUDGET = $20836.80 - $8508.45 = $12328.35 This is eerily close to the full amount you estimated as the excess budget in Update 8.

So... admittedly I made a lot of assumptions, but think it still illustrates the implications of the formula you described in that post.

Last Edited By: KithKanan Nov 20 13 11:08 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#4 [url]

Nov 21 13 10:24 AM

Robert -- Just one more note.

The front page of the campaign says "The exact amount that gets allocated will depend on how much of the pledge is needed to fund a fair share of the basic production budget -- if we exceed about 1550 supporters, then 25% of your pledge goes into the basic budget, and 25% into the premium budget." and we're quite a bit over 1550 supporters.

If you're going to come up with a new formula that would reduce the special premium budget below 50% of Premium Budget Contribution (or around $10,430 using my inaccurate assumptions from yesterday) you should probably let premium backers know that before the campaign closes so they have time to re-evaluate their pledge level should they want to (it doesn't make a difference to me, but it might to some people).

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#5 [url]

Nov 21 13 11:55 AM


The numbers you're using are way too high. You're not taking into account ANY of the set licensing and production costs. $75,000 is required to make the set at all, so that's off the table. So (128,000-75,000 = 53,000), and (53,000)(.9) = $47,700. And that's just the starting point; from there, half of that covers production and other costs, so that leaves only $23,850 to split between the basic and premium budgets. You're calculating that the premium budget is nearly as large as the actual TOTAL budget, so your calculations require significant revision.

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#6 [url]

Nov 21 13 1:09 PM

@Glorian my understanding was that the licensing costs (for the basic BGC/HL set itself) come from the "other" (divided between AnimEigo and the licensor) half of the 90%. Obviously any licensing for additional materials decided upon by the backers will be an additional cost.

ETA: I was assuming the minimum $33750 ($75000 x 0.9 x 0.5) in production expenses to make the set at all (plus the marginal production and shipping cost of more sets for more backers) came out of the "BASIC budget" plus the "Premium Contribution to BASIC Budget". That seemed like the whole point of the "Premium Contribution to BASIC Budget" being a per-copy thing in Robert's formula.

"Excess BASIC budget" is a different thing entirely ("Total BASIC Production budget" - "Cost to actually make/ship n 2-disc BGC/HL sets"). My whole point of running these numbers was to show that going by the info we've been given so far, this amount is really rather shockingly small and almost all of the excess budget appears to be "Special Premium".

Last Edited By: KithKanan Nov 21 13 1:18 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

Nov 21 13 2:37 PM


Your understanding isn't correct, as it's clearly spelled out on the home page of the Kickstarter: "Our goal is $75,000. Let's say we actually get funded for $100,000. That means there is an extra $11,250 in the production budget (I'm rounding up the KickStarter/Amazon fees to 10% in this example). Some of that will be needed to produce more sets, of course, but how does the remainder get spent?"

And because of that your understanding of of the way the funds are split isn't correct either; the base $75,000 is subtracted first, the original production costs aren't covered out of the Basic level budget (that doesn't make sense, since the Basic budget refers to excess funds; there isn't any such thing if the original production costs aren't met). In other words, pledging more means that you are providing more to the initial production costs than someone with a lower pledge (the percentages are the same, but the numbers aren't, of course). So you're assigning WAY too much to the premium budget, and seriously underestimating the basic budget (in addition to your numbers being too large because of not using the correct production costs).

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#8 [url]

Nov 21 13 3:07 PM

@Glorian okay, say you're right and $75,000 is taken out of the gross pledges off the top. How much of that $75,000 is allocated from basic pledges and how much from premium pledges? Do you allocate that by the ratio of backers or the ratio of $?

Also, how do you square that with what is clearly spelled out on the homepage of the Kickstarter in the section describing premium pledges: "Half of the pledge goes right into the production budget, but up to 50% of that portion will be assigned to a special Premium production budget that only Premium supporters will decide how to allocate, either for special commemorative items made just for them, or to enhance the final product for everyone. The exact amount that gets allocated will depend on how much of the pledge is needed to fund a fair share of the basic production budget -- if we exceed about 1550 supporters, then 25% of your pledge goes into the basic budget, and 25% into the premium budget.

Why did they give 1550 backers for that estimated figure? 250 x $40 early adopter basic pledges plus 1300 x $50 basic pledges = $75,000.

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#9 [url]

Nov 21 13 4:33 PM

I had to read it twice when the KS went live but as it's been spelled out on the Kickstarter. Say you pledge $100, half that, $50, goes into production budget. That half is then split into basic production budget and premium production budget based on overall contribution numbers/levels. The KS says that if it hits 1550 there is an even split. So $25 goes into basic budget $25 goes into premium. THATS how it works.

Forget it, this wasn't even the main point of my topic.

Last Edited By: JesseP Nov 21 13 5:40 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Nov 21 13 4:49 PM

I guess it should be apparent to everyone that the premium budget situation is clear as mud. There are four people posting in this thread and at least five different opinions as to how premium backers have been promised their pledges will be allocated (Robert has a different statement depending on what day you ask him with the caveat that all of them are his current understanding, not the final understanding).

EDIT: Jesse, I'm really sorry for the thread derail. What I was originally trying to get at with the budget talk is that it's hard to know what we can offer Premium backers without knowing how much money we'll have to spend per backer -- and whether we'll want/need to sacrifice shiny premium objects to make the basic set one we're happy with.

Then I got into 'someone is WRONG on the Internet' territory. I've been buried in database queries trying to get financial reports to add up, and that kind of turned me into 'THAT guy'.


Last Edited By: KithKanan Nov 21 13 6:02 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#11 [url]

Nov 21 13 6:53 PM

No I get it and it does have bearing on the topic, I just realized after looking at the numbers stuff for about the 5th time I was approaching the same territory and really shouldn't care that much.

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#12 [url]

Nov 22 13 5:03 AM

I've dug up my post about how the budget allocation works, here it is:

We start with the Gross amount raised. From this we deduct the fundraising expenses: KickStarter's fees, BackerKit costs (we'll probably use them), and the cost of producing and shipping the promotional items that are not part of the set that everyone gets (the cels, posters, kits, and some other goodies I'm going to be adding soon). Note that all the extra goodies provided so far have been donated by AnimEigo, myself, and the licensor -- our gifts to the project. So the only cost that gets deducted for them is the shipping.

That gets us the Net amount raised, which comes in two categories: the Net amount raised from BASIC supporters, and the net amount raised from PREMIUM (and above) supporters.

50% of the BASIC Net is the BASIC Budget Contribution. 50% of the PREMIUM Net is the PREMIUM Budget Contribution.

The Per-Copy BASIC Budget Allotment = BASIC Budget Contribution / # of BASIC products ordered (including any Double-Vision Addons).

The TOTAL BASIC Budget = Per-Copy BASIC Budget Allotment * # of products ordered (BASIC,PREMIUM,Double Vision). This is how the PREMIUM folks contribute to the Basic set that everyone gets.

The SPECIAL PREMIUM Budget = (BASIC Budget Contribution + PREMIUM Budget Contribution) - TOTAL BASIC Budget. This is the amount that the PREMIUM folks get to have fun with.

Right now all I can do is generate rough estimates for the total budget (both BASIC and PREMIUM combined) because AFAICT I can only get a full download of what everyone's ordered after the campaign ends. But as soon as I do get that data, job #1 is going to be making a public spreadsheet of all the costings.

My current conservative estimate of the total excess budget (which includes a contingency fund for unanticipated expenses) is about $11,500.00. Once I have access to the proper backer data when the KickStarter ends, I'll be able to generate tighter numbers, and the budget will almost certainly become larger.

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