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#21 [url]

Nov 25 13 9:34 PM

He did say that we'd have an option between the multi-coloured subs and grey/white subs on the final BDs didn't he?

If so, we really shouldn't be arguing over whether or not using coloured subtitles is "bad" or "good" when many appreciate the style and both options will be available on the final BD.

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#23 [url]

Nov 26 13 2:41 AM

JesseP wrote:
Are you really trying to equate Animeigo's sub title work w/ that of fansubs? criminy
Not exactly, but if one doesn't tread carefully, someone will. I'm more concerned about text placement and screen estate.
Relying only on multicolored subs has a weakness though... what if the viewer is color blind?

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#24 [url]

Nov 26 13 5:39 AM

Couple of comments:

The problem with song lyrics on the top is that now your eyes have to flick up and down the screen, and you have to be aware of changes in two distinct areas. We've typically reserved the top of the screen for non-critical information.

@ComSR: The core colors we use (yellow/green/red) have the nice property that they are distinguishable by people who have all the major types of color blindness: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

In fact, all the AnimEigo title colors -- even the ones we've never used -- were chosen so that killing one color channel (ie: the red, green or blue) still results in unique colors.

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#25 [url]

Nov 26 13 8:04 AM

madoverlord wrote:
The problem with song lyrics on the top is that now your eyes have to flick up and down the screen, and you have to be aware of changes in two distinct areas. We've typically reserved the top of the screen for non-critical information.
The core colors we use (yellow/green/red) have the nice property that they are distinguishable by people who have all the major types of color blindness: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

Well, isn't dialog more important than songs?
Whatever you do, don't mix red and green subs together. Without any other visual cues (hyphens etc.), such a person would have a hard time telling them apart.

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Last Edited By: psptzjchpksfhtbwdfqvyplltyefn Nov 26 13 8:09 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#27 [url]

Nov 27 13 3:52 AM

I'm not. Just wanted you to be aware of the potential issues, which could be easily avoided. White-light yellow-green are generally safe.
With this hyped "CrowdProduction" thing, can't we vote on colors and subtitle placements? Without the backers, there would be no product.

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#28 [url]

Nov 27 13 2:05 PM

If we're voting, I vote for AnimEigo style subtitles (yellow/green/etc) all the way. In my opinion, they're the best in the industry.

The FAQ on the Kickstater page states pretty clearly there will be two subtitle tracks: AnimEigo style, and grey/white. 

Last Edited By: Jay Penney Nov 27 13 2:08 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#29 [url]

Nov 27 13 6:38 PM

You get to have input, but keep in mind that making significant changes to the subtitle layouts is going to require a lot of time on my part. Color changes are easier, but I'd have to be really convinced that the proposed color set was better than our standard yellow/green/red/white/grey.

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#30 [url]

Nov 28 13 2:00 AM

Does your system allow tagging subtitles? With that you would able to do mass edits in a couple of clicks instead of searching the script all over. Actually, I'm not against the current set of colors. Just avoid conflicting colors in the same group and move it to a different portion of the screen.
Crunchyroll uses Aegisub for subtitling their videos.

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#31 [url]

Nov 29 13 4:20 AM

AnimEigo uses our own system. I wrote it, and I'm always tweaking it to do new things. Thus, changing the master color set is a matter of updating the constants in the program.

Our monochrome titles use the same subtitle file as the colored subtitles, it's just an "output monochrome" flag.

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#32 [url]

Nov 30 13 7:59 AM

madoverlord wrote:
AnimEigo uses our own system. I wrote it, and I'm always tweaking it to do new things. Thus, changing the master color set is a matter of updating the constants in the program.

Can it set different subtitle positions globally (like for insert songs) which can be overridden as needed per line?

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#33 [url]

Nov 30 13 2:09 PM

It doesn't use the nonlinear editing/layout metaphor like Aegisub. I can move things around if I need to but lines are not tagged in that way.

I would suggest you wait until there are some test subtitle runs to check before getting deep into format suggestions.

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#34 [url]

Dec 11 13 12:26 AM

I love the AnimEigo sub style. The thought and care that goes into them is unique and is the best in the industry. By all means present a more vanilla option for those that want it (if doing so doesn't eat into the budget significantly) but please keep the fundamentals that made your releases so special.

Nigel

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#35 [url]

Dec 11 13 10:41 AM

Glorian wrote:
@slerch666

See, maybe I'm just not picky about that sort of thing, but I'm fine with Sentai's subtitles. What I DON'T like are subtitles that blend into the background (Funi's old subtitles) or subtitles that are too small (Little Witch Academia, Katanagatari). I've seen too many complaints about 'big', 'ugly' subtitles that seem to want some cosmetic appeal at the expense of readibility; the subs don't need to look pretty, but they do need to do their job well.



So I am OK with ugly subtitles to a point, but the ADV/Sentai font takes up the entire bottom of the screen, from edge to edge and is just enormous. It's like the scale the DVD subs up to comical proportions and slap them on BD. It's ugly, and because it takes up so much space, it covers up more artwork than needed.

That's my opinion of course, and I guess I'd be OK with ADV sized fonts if push comes to shove.

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#36 [url]

Dec 11 13 10:44 AM

madoverlord wrote:
Oh, here's a link to a couple of subtitle screenshots from BGC 2, which I'm currently working on: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dfczc3l86lb2ycs/NE5n1fQGYh


Something I think we need to add to the list of things to vote on.

Credit replacement.

I'm a purist. I want the original Japanese credits intact, where they belong. Soft subbing over the names, fine since I can turn it off. White on black scroll after the ending credits, fine. Replacing credits? Not cool. FOR ME.

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#37 [url]

Dec 26 13 4:18 PM

slerch666 wrote:

I'm a purist. I want the original Japanese credits intact, where they belong. Soft subbing over the names, fine since I can turn it off. White on black scroll after the ending credits, fine. Replacing credits? Not cool. FOR ME.


 

Same here. I remember the old BGC DVD set used replaced end credits in English...Never cared for that. I prefer soft subs with the original credits.

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#38 [url]

Dec 27 13 5:02 AM

What I've settled on is letting the Japanese credits run with only song lyrics appearing (smaller font, bottom of screen), and then following them by a quick set of screens giving the full credits translation. I think it addresses everyone's concerns.

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#39 [url]

Jan 2 14 11:45 AM

I understand that it would be simpler to have the monochrome subs use the same layout as the colour ones, but would you consider using a more traditional layout instead? It seems to me the sort of people who would prefer to use the monochrome subs, would also prefer to have them presented in a more traditional, always centred way, like all the great Blu-ray labels do (Criterion, Synapse, Masters of Cinema, BFI, Arrow).

I hate nothing more than subtitles that are positioned below where a character is located in the frame when there are multiple speakers, as seen in the image from Update #14. I can hear the characters speaking and so can easily identify whose voice it is, even if I cannot understand the original language! When I watch a film with subtitles, I do my utmost to keep my focus AWAY from them, almost only looking at them in my peripheral vision, so I can focus on the actual images. This is a lot easier to achieve if the subtitles are less intrusive, less attention grabbing. The subtitles that feature on the music video from the Kickstarter page are basically perfect.

An alternate sub presentation is a great thing, but I don't think just a difference in colour is what is wanted most by a large section of pledgers.

Last Edited By: EddieLarkin Jan 2 14 3:38 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#40 [url]

Jan 3 14 1:38 PM

I will not be doing a more "traditional" layout, sorry. It is a significant extra amount of work, and multiline centered subtitles are harder to read. AnimEigo has always done multiline subtitles with the entire subtitle block centered, but the lines left-justified within that block. The music video subtitles that you think are perfect are in our traditional format (the monochrome variant of the style).

The particular subtitles that you hate, from update #14, are a very specific case. When updating our titles from DVD to Blu-Ray format, some constraints that forced me to go to that style were relaxed enough that I was able to revert to our traditional style in that sequence. The only other time we move a title off to the side is in the opening sequences of BGC 2 and BGC 4, where we need to shift a song subtitle to avoid it hitting a logo.

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